The propaganda assault has been unrelenting. We are constantly fed story after story telling us of EU intransigence, Irish wavering, British determination, respecting the electorate (or rather, the electorate we had in June 2016), that Remain “is now over”, the inevitability of No Deal, that it is (to no surprise at all) someone else’s fault, that a vote of no confidence will be useless, but that we will somehow win the day.
A total Muppet. And Elmo from Sesame Street
This is weapons grade bullshit. We are being gaslighted on a scale previously unheard of, the only redeeming factor in this idiocy being that those doing the gaslighting are so inept that their deceit is screamingly obvious. This remains an international level game of high stakes chicken, except that there is only one participant - the UK Government.
The Withdrawal Agreement is closed and will not be reopened - unless the UK Government can demonstrate an acceptable alternative to the Irish Backstop. The UK Government’s representatives are unable, or unwilling, to get this into their heads. Instead, we are being fed a diet of gaslighting amid attempts to pick off the Irish. Which won’t work.
Polecat on the bridge ...
Here’s chief gaslighter Michael “Oiky” Gove, as reported by the BBC: “Cabinet minister Michael Gove says the EU ‘seem to be refusing to negotiate with the UK’ over a new Brexit deal. Mr Gove, who is responsible for no-deal planning, said he was ‘deeply saddened’ that Brussels was, in his words, saying ‘no, we don't want to talk’”. Bullshit, Oiky. Have you got an acceptable backstop alternative? No. Stop blaming others.
The idiocy has, to no surprise at all, extended to the press. Here’s the Beeb press preview: “The Telegraph says the intervention by Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister in charge of no-deal planning - accusing the EU of refusing to engage in fresh talks - marks an escalation in the war of words between Westminster and Brussels”. Bullshit. There is no escalation - well, not from the EU side, anyway. This is just Tory posturing.
... along with the dissemblers ...
And how about this slice of hokum? “The Guardian urges the two sides to try to move on from their squabbling about whether they can even talk - because the consequences of not talking will be serious”. THERE IS NO SQUABBLING. There is nothing from which the EU has to “move on”. The “not talking” is down to the UK not coming up with an acceptable alternative to a backstop that it devised in the first place (see above).
Our supposed leaders are happy to see much of our farming sector wiped out, the automotive sector hop across the Channel, financial services picked off by Frankfurt, Paris, Brussels and Madrid, Sterling go down the pan, living standards tank, unemployment rocket and debt mushroom, yet all they can do is pump out bullshit.
... however plausible they may appear
So we hear the loathsome Toby Young claim that if alleged Prime Minister Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson loses a confidence vote, it will make no difference as he won’t resign (wrong), the Spectator’s dishonest editor Fraser Nelson claim that Sterling being devalued means there is an economic boom around the corner (if that were universally true, Argentina would be a very rich country indeed, which it isn’t), and cretins like Gove using the language of Combover Crybaby Donald Trump (“Sad”).
Our country is less than three months from screwing itself over, and for what? What was that about “taking back control”? The idiocy has to stop. And it has to stop now.
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Dear Zelo ,
I voted Remain in the 2016 referendum and hilariously got it wrong again having voted Leave in 1975 , however I am concerned that some of the Remain rhetoric may be counter-productive . You say ‘Our supposed leaders are happy to see much of our farming sector wiped out, the automotive sector hop across the Channel, financial services picked off by Frankfurt, Paris, Brussels and Madrid, Sterling go down the pan, living standards tank, unemployment rocket and debt mushroom, yet all they can do it pump out bullshit.‘ Many of these confidently stated forecasts may not turn out to be accurate and excessive ‘crying wolf’ will be manna to the Leavers , such as Mark Carney’s forecast of an immediate recession in 2016 after the vote , actually turned out in your terms to be ‘bullshit’ . Rewording that ‘we actually meant over a period’ doesn’t entirely repair the damage .
Furthermore one of the elements of Remain rhetoric relentlessly portraying the UK as a ‘victim’ of the EU is slightly naff and deeply unhistoric at this point . If as I suspect the next ‘Cliff Edge’ proves as ephemeral as the last (and who is he , anyhow ?) , things will go on . Let’s hope a GE intervenes and a Labour Administration can begin afresh
'Furthermore one of the elements of Remain rhetoric relentlessly portraying the UK as a ‘victim’ of the EU is slightly naff and deeply unhistoric at this point'.
I think you will find its the Leave side, not Remainers, that relentlessly, and wrongly, portrays the UK as victims of a malign and intransigent, in their eyes, EU.
“A vote to leave the EU could have material economic effects – on the exchange rate, on demand and on the economy’s supply potential – that could affect the appropriate setting of monetary policy,” Carney told a news conference.
"Mark Carney’s forecast of an immediate recession in 2016 after the vote."
Cliff Edge (and who is he , anyhow ?)
If I recall correctly he managed to make steal a lot of gold making his escape by creating chaos out of a traffic jam but then had a mishap on a moutain road leaving him and his ill gotten gains on a knife or if you like a cliff edge.
In a reworked version he is now a hedge fund manager who has a lot of gold, but not obviously not enough, and would like to steal more whilst the chaos over Brexit continues. He, and the country, are now on another cliff edge, waiting to see which way the wind blows amidst lots of huffing and puffing from ideologues and their attendant carpetbaggers on all sides.
As for a General Election? From latest poling data (whether you believe them or not) it more than likely that a hung parliament will evolve and I would suggest all bets be off as to who is likely to form a subsequent Government(s).
(a fairy story, codswallop or fake news whichever way you want to look look at it)
The Headbangers are in charge and playing a very dangerous game of Russian Roulette.
With the Johnson claiming that the Backstop he and his Cabinet colleagues agreed upon to maintain the GFA is undemocratic is beyond parody, abely assisted by those in the right wing toilet papers feeding the public garbage.
With the high stakes Russian Roulette thrown together with high stakes poker with EU citizens used as collateral in the hope that come High Noon on the 31st October, Bozza and the gang snatch victory from the Jaws of defeat...
Bozza is unlikely to find that scenario happening, the EU aren't into high drama and playing to the British right wing media esp Kussenberg shouting from Brussels that Bozza has defeated Johnny Foreigner's EU and its plans to sabotage the UK.
Sadly the Dad's Army scenario is one the EU is all too sadly aware of and has planed for Bozza's Premiership for soen time and has had almost 30 years of his bullshit.
This is not going to end well for us, either way, if No Deal is prevented and there is a GE, hopefully a Labour government, its going to have a huge dipolamtic and very serious domestic crisis to deal with at home. Is that the Cummings cunning plan?
Did you notice the extraordinary attempts by the BofE to avert a recession or the fact that hopes of preventing Bexit have been kept alive?
The fact that the dumbest of Quitlings don't understand economic forecasts is no excuse for their leaders not to. (Although a dishonourable mention must be made of Minford who accepts that agriculture and fishing are going down the pan and is quite cheerful about it.)
Derek: recessions are always "over a period." Remember the 2008 crash? That was about as immediate as you can get, but it had no effect for a long time on all but a few. Same as the Tory Govt's austerity policy.
And things have not exactly been great since the referendum, have they? Carney was right.
Caught a glimpse of the 1pm Propaganda Bulletin from the BBC today and Digby Jones turned up to say that he doesn't want no deal but that the EU has to realise they have a responsibility to us (really?) and that they can't just hide in 'their bunker'. At a time when we are seeing how words have devastating repercussions this was both idiotic and sickening.
A lot of things happen, about one minute after we leave with no Deal.
These are the EU Preparedness Notices ...This document's been online for about 2 years now. Contains all the agreements, contracts and arrangements, over 40 years worth. Some we were responsible for introducing.
These will stop when we cease to be a member of the EU. It's not Project Fear, just the club membership rules. We leave the club and we lose all this. Immediately.
The idiocy will not stop.
It will get much, much worse.
Britain 2019, a nation comitting suicide in slow motion.
It's now clear that the headbanger libertarians have seized control. Leaving the EU was never about all the things they said it was ('taking back control', extra money for the NHS, etc. etc. ad nauseum). For the free market ideologues it was an opportunity to turbocharge Thatcherism, strip the state back further and screw the consequences for the little people (whilst making sure that the consequences for the 1% would involve raking in a lot more cash). Patel, Truss, Raab (and others).... they're all cut from the same cloth.
They're also all promoted way beyond their abilities. And this, ultimately, is what will do for their Randian bollocks: they're starting with utter bullshit (libertarianism is built on shaky ground, at best) and they don't have the aptitude to make reality match their rhetoric. The only question is, will reality catch up with them before they screw us all over?
Of all the unanswered questions since the referendum, the one that's becoming more urgent and more apt (and still remains unanswered) is this one: in what universe is it possible for a medium-sized country, which has just put itself voluntarily in dire economic and political straits, to negotiate better trade deals with large countries like the US, China and India than the world's biggest trading bloc?
If de Piffle gets his crash-out, this particular chicken (and many, many more) will come home to roost eventually. As a country we can either begin dealing with the problems that led to the leave vote now, or we can do it years down the line. Given that there are other pressing concerns (climate emergency, anyone?), it seems prudent to start now. But the libertarian fuckwits around the cabinet table are too busy wanking themselves off at the thought of lots more cash for themselves personally, now...
Derek, many things predicted in ARE coming true. As well as others not predicted. Project Fear has rapidly become Project Fact.
Besides, if a GP or specialist were to tell Mick a heavy smoker to make his next cigarette his very last otherwise he has a 90% chance of losing his left lung within six months, do you think Mick should at least ponder his doctor's words if not act on them? Or should he gamble and quit smoking the day before the operation to remove his lung?
Britain still has a chance to avert the worst. Why take the risk in order to prove a point of principle?
One of Thatcher's first acts was to award pay rises, to the Army and Police. We all know now what ensued. If this shit happens and If BJ is moving in the same direction he better make them fucking big ones.
Because I suspect they're going to have their work cut out...and there's not going to be enough of them.
Dear Zelo ,
Although this topic is about Brexit until Seb Roger’s comment it’s hardly seemed worth contributing further , one comment was about 2008 and others have been about the prospects for the UK economy . Following the neo-liberal stance since 1979 the UK and World economies have managed to sell debt based economics on a global basis to Western democracies . Whilst that stance prevails in our economic management in or out of Brexit is a side show . Although as a commenter identified I may have slightly maligned Mark Carney , but that ex-casino banker , in the face of a generally accepted view that the ‘credit crunch’ was due to lack of proper lending controls leading to a property bubble , has responded with a ‘help to buy’ scheme , which simply props up and maintains the original unrealistic valuations .
The interest on those unrealistic valuations has been supported by mortgaging the whole UK economy ever since 2008 , leading to the ‘austerity’ we’re suffering . It may have been justified whilst corrective action was taken but increasingly the attempt is being made to make it the ‘new normal’ . The EU is riddled with the same failing doctrine , with Deutsch Bank and it’s lackey tool Javid , now prominent as Chancellor . Deutsch apparently have lent billions to Trump , and the EU in support of French/German banking interests have contrived a ‘new normal’ system where the Greeks now have bigger debts than their original ‘credit crunch’ size and with even less chance than ever of paying them off . We have major work to do changing the UK from a debt economy to one where we can cut down on the rentiers . That should be our priority , Brexit will continue as a ‘running sore’ negotiating process , which it’s been since the seventies . It should not distract us from the main problem ,
George Osborne, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, introduced the 'Help to Buy' scheme and then off-loaded the oversight to Mark carney.
Dear Zelo ,
Yes , Anonymous , the Governor of the Bank of England has no responsibility , ...just following orders ,
No, Derek, the Governor of the Bank of England has responsibilities but the Governor does not pass Government legislation in Parliament.
A slight improvement over your earlier post though.
Dear Zelo ,
Yes , Anonymous , my goodness here we go with a sophistry course . Roles have Responsibilities , true , but that doesn’t mean that a role occupant acts Responsibly . My assertion is that in his long standing collusion with the interests of the banking sector , the Governor is not reflecting a role Responsibility for the overall welfare of the British economy . Thank you ,
I see, Derek, so the Bank of England should refuse to implement Government policies.
What about Article 50? Leaving the EU is highly detrimental to the UK economy so, using your viewpoint, Tim Barrow should have refused to deliver Theresa May's letter to Donald Tusk.
Environment: A licence awarded to Tidal Lagoon (Swansea) despite Government rejection and Fracking banned despite Government approval.
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