tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post6150334094988703086..comments2024-03-26T13:27:26.499+00:00Comments on Zelo Street: Elections - The Elephant OUTSIDE The RoomTim Fentonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00726447899972084146noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-28702677291904510982019-05-04T14:32:16.823+01:002019-05-04T14:32:16.823+01:00There was a time when political leaders actually h...There was a time when political leaders actually had leadership qualities and were able to offer rational explanations for their policies. Nowadays, political leaders go along with the ill-informed opinions of prats.Ceiliognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-91452225042141538682019-05-04T11:34:41.470+01:002019-05-04T11:34:41.470+01:00Andy Foster, well said. I'd dearly love to hav...Andy Foster, well said. I'd dearly love to have remained in the EU, but it isn't possible now. The best we can hope for is a soft Brexit that comes us in the customs union. <br /><br />It's curious to see all these media luvvies like Tony Robinson deserting Labour citing Brexit as the main reason. Presumably they don't want to lose the NHS to a Trump trade deal (who in their right mind does?) but how did this commitment to the NHS sit with Blair introducing privatisation in the first place? This is all about destabilising Corbyn's leadership.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569732807130090838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-22897455934870554472019-05-04T07:51:24.420+01:002019-05-04T07:51:24.420+01:00A friendly word: best to avoid the word "shys...A friendly word: best to avoid the word "shyster" with its historical connections to anti Semitism. Keep up the good work!Roaring Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07907122852633146056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-60829367378720343552019-05-04T00:40:46.105+01:002019-05-04T00:40:46.105+01:00Obviously I'm biased being a Labour member (jo...Obviously I'm biased being a Labour member (joined because of Corbyn) but even if I wasn't, I'd feel for the party right now because the simple fact of the matter is that the membership is deeply divided on Brexit, a dangerous farce that is (and this isn't stated enough) wholly of the Tories making. With many traditional Labour strongholds in favour of leaving the EU and many more liberal, metropolitan Labour areas vehemently against, the leadership seem stuck between a rock and a hard place, presumably fearing that they will obviously disappoint one or the other. There's a lot of 'we have to accept the original vote, democracy blah blah blah' comments going on here across both main parties whenever the prospect of a second vote is reared and I do wonder if the real concern here is not the sanctity of democracy in terms of the original EU Ref, but the fear of violent recrimination on the streets should the public be asked to return to the polls once more. Let's face it, with the murder of Jo Cox, the constant threat of 'Tommy Robinson' and his entourage and comments like 'I'll don khaki, pick up a rifle, and head for the front lines' from Farage, it's a chilling prospect that must cross both May and Corbyn's minds. Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569732807130090838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-59558276097387532252019-05-03T21:45:33.924+01:002019-05-03T21:45:33.924+01:00It's curious at first sight, but there is good...It's curious at first sight, but there is good polling evidence that many people outside sophisticated political circles don't see the Lib Dems as a pro-EU party. They're the great opportunists of the political system, almost Labour if they're after your vote against the Tories, almost Tory if they're after their votes against Labour. They're shameless. I used to have a Lib Dem leaflet with their candidate up a ladder installing a free smoke alarm in a pensioner's house (it's called treating in election law); I still have an image of a Lib Dem leaflet deliberately made to look like a Labour one. Their comeback is mostly in rural areas because the Tories there are so unpopular. <br /><br />Which brings us to Labour. Brexit is far worse for them than for the Tories. The Tories can support Leave and keep most of their voters. Labour's support is far more deeply split. The hoary figure of 70% of Labour voters supporting Remain is misleading, because it came after the loss of many traditional Labour voters to UKIP. Labour's coalition has always been between the intellectual middle class and the workers. It is symbolised in the old party badge, with its crossed spade and pen. Brexit cuts right through that. We lose support from Remianers in London. We lose support from Leavers in Sunderland. So Jeremy Corbyn has to behave like Harold Wilson (someone whose reputation is better than it used to be), trying to keep the party and its support together. He has no choice. Any Labour leader would have to do the same, or lose even more support. The damage is greater than anyone thought because of People's Vote - Peter Mandelson's creation - raising impossible hopes of staying in the EU, and using it to destabilise Corbyn. And because it's all gone on so long. But all there is to do is keep going. There is no other way.Andy Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05811335442613371357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-52274845905031972912019-05-03T20:48:35.082+01:002019-05-03T20:48:35.082+01:00Oh no just seen the Corbyn ITN interview in which ...Oh no just seen the Corbyn ITN interview in which he pushes we have to do a deal.<br /><br />I don't think he gets it at all. Or perhaps he does but refuses to see it. If his Brexit was wanted by the electorate as a whole why are the Tories lost councillors being replaced mainly by Libdems and The Greens who we were told were a lost cause? The electorate not getting the right message?robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-71886366476029648572019-05-03T20:16:51.722+01:002019-05-03T20:16:51.722+01:00Sorry forgot the Greens who also had a good result...Sorry forgot the Greens who also had a good result.<br /><br />They will be likely play a crucial role in the future whether on the side lines or in coalition with another group.<br /><br />Plurality should lead to better than two party yah boo politics.<br /><br />At least it shows "middle of the roaders" are not lying down to be run over!<br />robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-79442857032140845832019-05-03T19:55:00.806+01:002019-05-03T19:55:00.806+01:00Quite right Tim. If Corbyn wants to "bail out...Quite right Tim. If Corbyn wants to "bail out the Tories" as Gardiner put it be honest about it and let us vote accordingly.<br /><br />As has been pointed out by many it could be Labour's tuition fee moment referencing the Libdems handicap in recent elections. That now appears to be over which opens up a new front on debates hopefully giving us a change from the "I'm right you're wrong" shouting matches we have now.<br /><br />We should not forget history but don't let it dominate our future!robnoreply@blogger.com