tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post4562678844421325943..comments2024-03-26T13:27:26.499+00:00Comments on Zelo Street: I Will Not Condemn A True DemocratTim Fentonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00726447899972084146noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-5308501606590661752019-12-16T14:03:43.152+00:002019-12-16T14:03:43.152+00:00Interesting link Liam thanks. I think one comment ...Interesting link Liam thanks. I think one comment speaks volumes to me, and that's the one that says the comments sound like echoes of tabloid criticisms. I did most of my face to face campaigning on Merseyside and parts of Lancashire, like I say, it's only the criticism of Brexit that reared its head in some of the towns that voted to leave. Interestingly Merseyside doesn't buy tabloids like The S*n, whose whole MO seems to be to discredit Corbyn so perhaps that is why he didn't feature as a negative on the doorstep there?<br /><br />As for Phillips I think she has developed a credible (though not convincing, to my eyes at least) public image in the media and that obviously goes a long way when it comes to votes.<br /><br />Proper in depth analysis is of course required, but I worry that the centrists will dominate in the interim. Given their friends in the media, their false narrative is bound to quickly take form in the minds of the public and once again Corbyn will be criticised when the reality is that he was far less of a problem than Brexit itself. I cannot believe for example that the policies in the manifesto were 'unpopular' among trad Labour voters as Alan Johnson claims. A good NHS, an end to homelessness and austerity and the rebuilding of a stable and supportive welfare state is only ever unpopular with the right wing.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569732807130090838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-39286873138108503662019-12-15T11:58:38.431+00:002019-12-15T11:58:38.431+00:00That's fair, and I'd never want to discoun...That's fair, and I'd never want to discount someone's experiences, but there are other people who reported a very different experience on the doorsteps.<br /><br />https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1205816759267319810?s=19<br /><br />(I suppose it comes down to how much you trust an Anecdote On The Internet. Although it's definitely possible for both of you to be correct depending on where you were canvasing.)<br /><br />I still think you'd need a bigger statistical breakdown for some proper analysis. Why did, say, Jess Philips lose a much smaller share of the vote than other Labour areas despite being a vocal pro-Remain MP in a Pro-Leave area. Did Labour lose votes in Pro-Remain areas too? Why did they make so little impression in Scotland when there's a fair number of people up here who'd love to vote for a left-wing but Pro-Union party?LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-92220521400518104032019-12-14T22:15:04.196+00:002019-12-14T22:15:04.196+00:00Liam, I'm one of the people who do believe tha...Liam, I'm one of the people who do believe that Labour trying to ride two horses and push for Remain and a people's vote is to blame. I don't think that's a reckless position to take, rather it's an opinion based on my experiences this past month. Whenever I spoke on the doorstep with people who normally identified as traditional Labour voters but were undecided who they would vote for, if at all, on the 12th, the same point kept on getting raised: we had a vote, why do we need another? Now personally Brexit terrifies me and I wish it could be reversed but, for those people, it was the major stumbling block. The Remainer centrists blamed Corbyn for not being strong enough with the Brexit ref (which was pretty stupid and unfair of them) they ensured that he rethought his position and now they're blaming him again. Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569732807130090838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-74223611713442051632019-12-14T19:39:21.834+00:002019-12-14T19:39:21.834+00:00I think rushing in to say "this is definitely...I think rushing in to say "this is definitely the fault of everyone who pushed Labour towards Remain... That's what caused the vote to collapse" is just as reckless as those saying "this is definitely 100% the fault of Corbyn the person"... We don't need guesswork, we need facts. Then we can try and come up with a strategy.LiamKavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01996095233681105682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-27748061420201990622019-12-14T11:35:45.376+00:002019-12-14T11:35:45.376+00:00Shame about Crewe & Nantwich. At least you won...Shame about Crewe & Nantwich. At least you won't be bumping into Dr Mullan in your local A&E, or plodding about in his copper's uniform, as he'll be doing the House of Commons hustle for the next few years.Megapenthesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-46770411114693696202019-12-14T10:34:14.087+00:002019-12-14T10:34:14.087+00:00Well said.
The showing of the lib dems, Tinge, et...Well said.<br /><br />The showing of the lib dems, Tinge, etc has put to bed the argument for a return to the "centre", by those so inclined in my social groups. I hope that view will be shared by those planning Labour's future.Jaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-56528686118029701932019-12-14T09:32:58.349+00:002019-12-14T09:32:58.349+00:00Nicely Put Zelo. How could we condemn a thoroughly...Nicely Put Zelo. How could we condemn a thoroughly decent man who has fought racism his entire Parliamentary career and who stood up in Parliament so many times to condemn Antisemitism when so many (including the so-called Cheif Rabbi) remained silent.<br />Corbyn's getting on- there was little in it for Corbyn except for that which he preached: For the Many Not the Few.<br />He has left a fantastic legacy and I believe those hyperventilating about a "Boris landslide" will rue the day.<br />The figures show something else- the majority did NOT want Johnson. In reality- any party only needs one or two majority seats to govern successfully but when you claim "a landslide" people will expect an awful lot. And they will be disappointed.<br />Corbyn leaves a legacy on which to build. Struggles often take a long time. Success doesn't happen overnight. If it takes until the next election then so be it.<br />We know Boris Johnson is an opportunist whose soul raison d'être is his personal ambition.<br />It's only a matter of time before the Brexit Fireworks start. And that will be fun.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-11328744786147756272019-12-14T02:04:23.149+00:002019-12-14T02:04:23.149+00:00You've nothing to lose but your triangleation...You've nothing to lose but your triangleation.grim northernerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06550636800966418400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-30028021458327416322019-12-13T23:31:36.225+00:002019-12-13T23:31:36.225+00:00Thank you Tim, honourable thoughts.
The greatest ...Thank you Tim, honourable thoughts.<br /><br />The greatest fault of Corbyn was his unwillingness to fight as dishonestly or aggressive as the eventual winners, or the split-causing libdems.<br /><br />A counter to all the same forces that worked to undermine Corbyn before the election is required. If the leadership Resigned quickly, they will literally be giving the bad people what they wanted.<br /><br />They should be counterintuitive, and not responsive to the press/rw narrative. Also, this election could be like 92, where hindsight showed it would have been better for the Tories to lose, instead they had to hold the broken vase/baby!<br /><br /><br />Anyway:<br /><br /><br /><br />The leadership should take the bugs bunny/tortoise & hare strategy.<br /><br />This election was to get Brexit done, that's the narrative of the media in line with the Tory party.<br /><br />Brexit however, is not going to be done by January or anytime soon after. That's why the short election window, because with time, and requiring new things to talk about, the media/people start eventually asking deeper questions.<br /><br />Corbyn,etc should every single day say when's Brexit happening until it gets boring, whether it takes 3 Months or 5 years, Labour will win the argument, and as New labour caused, the Tories will be lost to power for a generation.<br /><br />That's before the likelihood of fraud being discovered. A 4 week election so there was no time for insight and perspective, after the clichéd talking points. And there wasn't the framing of borisbot or coward long enough, or the boy who cried wolf.<br /><br /><br />Then there's the possible recession, which is what last week's figures showed. <br /><br />Those leave voters are going to be extremely bitter and angry, in time, at the Tories - reality eventually catches up.......<br /><br /><br />If Johnson, may and major could get elected, there's nothing in the way of Corbyn, and having studied the history of marketing and propaganda, if ASICS or skodas or Apple's can get re-perceived so can Corbyn and co. The same previous coup participants will try to return the baseline of the party to hollow blairism if the leadership and their supporters give in to the demand to resign.<br /><br />With no actual vision of change and ambition, and a history of bluffing through life, Boris Johnson is going to fuck up just more. (Yes, and......)<br /><br />Own the narrative. Never give in, reflexively. Bore through constantcy, become familiar.<br /><br />Oh and The libdems told voters they were the 2nd place party, they lied, they were enablers to brexiters & Johnson, that would not happen again, nor should they ever be allowed to have it forgotten. The other narrative that should be repeated ad nauseum should be that Corbyn offered a one issue government giving a people's vote, and Jo swinsons right-wing ideology stopped that.<br /><br />People should genuinely start contemplating Corbyn/McDonnell taking a step back, a break, for a future, with the consequences shown, of returning - if the world is in chaotic fire, there's nothing stopping how things get done in the future except the vested interests of the status quo.<br />The future belongs to the left.<br /><br />Sr<br /><br /><br />Favourite videos/missed opportunities:<br /><br /><br /><br />https://youtu.be/cFEarBzelBs<br />https://youtu.be/sSSqc1qG238<br />https://youtu.be/TJ1SDXbij8Y<br />https://youtu.be/axSnW-ygU5g<br />https://youtu.be/3vDWWy4CMhE<br />The Speech that Made Obama President<br />The Speech that Made Obama President<br />In 2004, a one-term senator from Illinois took the stage to deliver the keynote speech at the Democratic National Convention in Boston. By the time Barack Ob...<br /><br /><br /><br />Talkin' Bout a Revolution<br />Talkin' Bout a Revolution<br />Provided to YouTube by Elektra Records Talkin' Bout a Revolution · Tracy Chapman Tracy Chapman ℗ 1988 Elektra/Asylum Records for the United States and WEA In...<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Beware, fellow plutocrats, the pitchforks are coming | Nick Hanauer<br />Beware, fellow plutocrats, the pitchforks are coming | Nick Hanauer<br />Nick Hanauer is a rich guy, an unrepentant capitalist — and he has something to say to his fellow plutocrats: Wake up! Growing inequality is about to push ou...<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-7959116163910021282019-12-13T20:26:32.259+00:002019-12-13T20:26:32.259+00:00The centrists, led by the mod postman Alan Johnson...The centrists, led by the mod postman Alan Johnson and the anti-semitic conspiracy theorists were soon out in force, condemning Corbyn and Momentum. They can paint it however they want, they can even tell us to leave 'their' party (yeah that's just what the losers ought to be doing isn't it wilfully shedding support?) but the fact remains it is their fault. It's not 1997 anymore and they have used their meedja friends to criticise every leader since their beloved Tony (for well...for not being Tony. A positive considered a negative I would say). They ensured that the leadership became the party of the people's vote, stopping just inches away from Tom Watson's staunch 'we are the party of Remain' comment, and we lost huge leave voting constituencies as a result. Now of course, they're busy trying to say it wasn't Brexit at all, it was all Corbyn's fault. A great and decent man has been ripped apart by these duplicitous insincere careerists and, if they get their way and install one of their own like Jess Phillips then maybe I will grant them their wish and leave the party after all.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569732807130090838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-69990111735305338062019-12-13T20:14:13.924+00:002019-12-13T20:14:13.924+00:00My beloved sister made a fifty minute walk in the ...My beloved sister made a fifty minute walk in the cold<br />dark rain to cast her vote for the first time in her life.<br />She's not a Marxist or an anti-semite.<br />She wouldn't even know what those terms mean.<br />Well done everybody.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-68110496892051934682019-12-13T19:12:01.942+00:002019-12-13T19:12:01.942+00:00I say we vote in Malcolm from the mailwatch forum....I say we vote in Malcolm from the mailwatch forum. Top geezer. <br /><br />Actually, put him in the Tories and he will take it down from the inside. Accidentally, but still countsDeffo not Winegumsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-73472611568612307722019-12-13T18:28:44.624+00:002019-12-13T18:28:44.624+00:00“No, not this man” they shouted “Give us Barrabas!...“No, not this man” they shouted “Give us Barrabas!”Esmondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09519965947734880979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-2711026095706118592019-12-13T16:53:26.423+00:002019-12-13T16:53:26.423+00:00Straw also obstructed a further inquiry into the H...Straw also obstructed a further inquiry into the Hillsborough disaster while saying, "Scousers are always up to something". Thus dismissing a million citizens with his own bigotry.<br /><br />I can't remember if that was before or after he allowed mass murderer Pinochet to get away.<br /><br />Straw is a disgusting tenth rate worthless piece of human detritus. May he and his ilk rot in hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-80701754181600507822019-12-13T16:17:16.005+00:002019-12-13T16:17:16.005+00:00Well said, thank you.Well said, thank you.Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.com