tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post1438813723292195851..comments2024-03-26T13:27:26.499+00:00Comments on Zelo Street: Corbyn - The Labour EndgameTim Fentonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00726447899972084146noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-58849947970138269482016-07-11T21:45:37.457+01:002016-07-11T21:45:37.457+01:00Very interesting how Tom Watson cut short his disc...Very interesting how Tom Watson cut short his discussions with the unions. Almost as if he had some personal knowledge and confidence about what may happen with the NEC this week. <br /><br />The R4 today discussion this morning disproportionally concentrated on the legal interpretations of the rulebook. The focus on a rather skewed legal argument reminded me of the dodgy "imminent threat" of WMDs in 2003. The "45 minute" meme was a classic spin tactic that avoided the substantive issue and concentrated on policy based evidence making. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-56180715229989995042016-07-11T13:17:40.780+01:002016-07-11T13:17:40.780+01:00Here are my thoughts on the LP rule book, plus Car...Here are <a href="https://gapingsilence.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/playing-by-the-rules/" rel="nofollow">my thoughts</a> on the LP rule book, plus <a href="http://www.headoflegal.com/2016/07/11/can-jeremy-corbyn-be-kept-off-labours-leadership-ballot/" rel="nofollow">Carl Gardner's</a>. Carl's views on Corbyn are diametrically opposed to mine, so it's interesting that both posts come to the same basic conclusion - the rules <b>don't</b> say that the incumbent needs to seek nominations, & shouldn't be read as if they do. (Carl does, however, point out that the rulebook gives the NEC the power to alter the rules, which could allow for all kinds of wackiness.)Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-76639804275134158692016-07-10T22:44:49.047+01:002016-07-10T22:44:49.047+01:00That said, I'm not entirely sure that most of ...That said, I'm not entirely sure that most of the PLP do think that the increase in membership is a good thing: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2zmcfW8AIzGqs.jpg:largechris stileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16220270505988683271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-78421024308045383692016-07-10T22:42:33.320+01:002016-07-10T22:42:33.320+01:00"The requirement that Corbyn needs 51 nominat..."The requirement that Corbyn needs 51 nominations to stand is the only real safeguard that stops Dacre, Murdoch, Lynton Crosby & all their supporters from 'voting' Jeremy back in. "<br /><br />I really don't think that the vast majority of the new joiners are right wing entryists. Remember that Corbyn would have won last years election even excluding the £3 votes.chris stileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16220270505988683271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-4691742961009956562016-07-10T21:40:59.657+01:002016-07-10T21:40:59.657+01:00As an outsider I can see the problem for those who...As an outsider I can see the problem for those who regard the "right" of the Party as traitors.<br /><br />Our electoral system means that the electorate vote MPs into Parliament ie, a democratic vote. Once these MPs are into Parliament they need to a leader to represent them as such. It is no good having a leader who doesn't command the respect of the majority of MPs in that Party as the "leader" is no longer leading. <br /><br />Those complaining of lack of democracy are really complaining about different levels of democracy. That is why I believe that the OMOV for Party leader is totally dysfunctional. The Tories are going to have the same problem if Leadsom gets the Party members vote yet the democratically elected MPs may have to work with someone they cannot respect as leader.<br /><br />It is an invidious position for both Parties and if a pragmatic compromise cannot be reached it may be in the best interests for both of them to split into separate entities as the antagonism will rankle in the minds of the losers for some considerable time causing the problems the Tories have had over Europe since joining the Common Market.<br /><br />Perhaps we could then get back to serious debates over problems faced rather than the we right you wrong slanging matches we have now which only our decrepit media get anything out of.<br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /> robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-77337234369317793842016-07-10T19:37:56.233+01:002016-07-10T19:37:56.233+01:00Anybody who thinks Eagle and Field, both nominal W...Anybody who thinks Eagle and Field, both nominal Wirral MPs, should be regarded as honest, democratic and decent......Well, read this:<br />https://medium.com/@pitt_bob/how-angela-eagle-got-to-be-mp-for-wallasey-e30d4ad9483#.mlktq1pbn<br /><br />That's how New Labour have <i><b>always</b></i> operated. Which is why they will always be reviled by anybody who loves democracy and social cohesion.<br /><br />Let's not forget, too, <i><b>it is THEY who have split the Labour Party, THEY who have tried sabotage what's left of decency in public life</b></i>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-1903661980198661622016-07-10T19:27:37.801+01:002016-07-10T19:27:37.801+01:00Talk of "fairness" and far right sophist...Talk of "fairness" and far right sophist New Labour bullshit:<br /><br />How "fair" is it that fewer than 180 individuals can defy the wishes of the majority of over 500,000 members?<br /><br />How "fair" is it those individuals hide behind lawyerly bullshit and not enter an open election (which Jeremy Corbyn would undoubtedly win)?<br /><br />How "fair" is it those same individuals policies were routed in two elections and now say Corbyn is "unelectable"?<br /><br />How "fair" is it those same individuals voted for an illegal war which mass murdered many tens of thousands of innocent people?<br /><br />How "fair" is it those same individuals were in government during the beginning of the greatest depression since the 1930s and now claim economic "expertise"?<br /><br />If this leads to a split in the party, so what? Bring it on, I say......finally get rid of the New Labour traitors. Recover the moral prestige of the Labour Party and its original principles. The last time this opportunity arose was when Rogers, Williams, Jenkins and Owen ran away to obscurity, but the chance was thrown away when Blair lied his way to power and betrayal (at a time when a monkey could have defeated the tories). Now we face the same kind of mindset, the type that jeered its way to power and now won't stand aside though told democratically that they are the minority. There are no depths these people will not plumb, no amount of lying bullshit they won't manufacture. Which is why the Labour Party is better off without them. What use is power if it is fronted by bitter people who have demonstrated they are neither capable or democratic and who will shovel yet more tory misery on top of the thieving they have already helped administer?<br /><br />Nor should anybody expect "fairness" from mainstream media who are overwhelmingly far right liars and propagandists.<br /><br />Long term, this country will either make an organised attempt to restore decency or it will sink into even worse thieving and warmongering manufactured by the likes of New Labour and its tory associates. Time is now running short.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-76064505561519226802016-07-10T19:22:47.529+01:002016-07-10T19:22:47.529+01:00The requirement that Corbyn needs 51 nominations t...The requirement that Corbyn needs 51 nominations to stand is the only real safeguard that stops Dacre, Murdoch, Lynton Crosby & all their supporters from 'voting' Jeremy back in.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18005785936395702821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-89287282024104801422016-07-10T18:50:21.965+01:002016-07-10T18:50:21.965+01:00More 'pre-news' this weekend from the BBC:...More 'pre-news' this weekend from the BBC:<br /><br />As JC was addressing a huge and appreciative crowd at the Durham Miners' Gala, "news" emerged that Angela Eagle was planning to make her leadership stand...on Monday. <br /><br />Internal Labour Party politics aside, as an outside spectator, I detect yet another smell of orchestrated PR spin and collision from certain influential elements within BBC news. <br /><br />Why didn't the BBC wait until this was actual news, a firm announcement on Monday. Laura K has already got form form reporting on Angela Eagle's decision to challenge - then didn't. Then to wait so that JC "does the right thing". Again, more examples of "pre-news" eminating from experienced spin doctors (the same who brought us the "dodgy dossier"?) <br /><br />This weekend saw the BBC collaborate in a shoddy attempt to spoke JC's powerful speech to the Durham Miners' Gala. <br />Such bias must go against the BBC Charter Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-30752244917977385272016-07-10T18:23:53.987+01:002016-07-10T18:23:53.987+01:00An anti-Corbyn QC is strongly of the opinion that ...An anti-Corbyn QC is strongly of the opinion that Corbyn can't be excluded from ballot - see http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/11/could-labours-rule-book-be-used-keep-jeremy-corbyn-leadership-ballotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-77998181668722880192016-07-10T17:52:28.604+01:002016-07-10T17:52:28.604+01:00A quick read of the rule book suggests that if Jer...A quick read of the rule book suggests that if Jeremy resigns then he would only need 12.5% of the PLP to nominate him as the leader's post would be vacant. A gamble that might be worth taking?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00747667665183126520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4433144336299288135.post-5781912131211344312016-07-10T16:52:14.898+01:002016-07-10T16:52:14.898+01:00Here's some legal advice you might want to tak...Here's some legal advice you might want to take a look at, particularly the consequences in general if the wording intended that an incumbent also need 20% of the vote to stand.<br /><br />In short, if this is Watson's game, he's fucked up. Pg 20 onwards if you don#t want to scroll through it all. <br /><br />https://www.scribd.com/doc/316774863/Labour-Party-Leadership-Legal-Advice#fullscreenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com